This victim mentality you all have seems a bit odd. I got the impression CCP were monitoring client behaviour then issuing bans based upon that. I've not seen anyone announcing a crusade to report multiboxers. If individual players did file excessive reports out of malice, I doubt the GMs would take kindly to it.

Well, I've done maybe 9 or 10 more Assault-level Incursion sites and I haven't been banned.

I've got another video I'm gonna' put together for the boxing community; I'll cross-post it here.

Yeah, I used to just manually do it that way for miners, but eventually I didn't really care enough as I had all the isk I really was willing to mine for. Some things just don't die.

True, if you are using that third party program to "simultaneously" multibox - You are now considered to be in breach of the EULA and will be banned.

The problem is players using a "3rd party program" are being banned for using it in a way that seems to fit with the new interpretation of CCP's EULA with no confirmation from CCP that what the player has done is in breach of the EULA.
(a random tweet from 1 dev states it is ok, a random quote from another dev says it isn't)

If CCP can't get on the same page with this change, how can players abide by and be judged by the new rules.

CCP policing the changes on a case by case basis is not acceptable (if you can input single commands to individual multiple clients quickly, you risk being banned). They need to make a clear decision as to what is and isn't legal and announce it to the whole community.

Too date CCP has promoted multiboxing and encouraged it via special deals to purchase multiple accounts. Now, under the new unclear interpretation of the EULA, if you use those multiple accounts too efficiently, you risk being banned.

Please be sure to give an email address to one of your ingame friends because if CCP decide you are breaking the rules (as suggested by CCP Pelligro) and ban you, your friend can come to this thread to let us know.

Do keep in mind though, the new rules rely heavily on "Player Policing" . Maybe you and the other person you know just haven't been reported yet so hadn't come to CCP's attention.
You did just remove the need for player policing though by advertising your breach of the rules (as per CCP Pelligro) on the forums.

Kinete - I admire you will here. I hadn't watched your vid previously and when you mentioned videofx I (wrongly) presumed you were using it.

I've multiboxed up to 15 characters in a similar fashion using 4 monitors, for both mining and incursions with a few experiments with PVP. The problem now becomes how quickly you can manage those individual clients.
I can scroll through and activate modules etc on all my characters quite quickly using nothing but shortcuts provided by CCP and standard window manager. I have a very efficient round robin setup and the standard window manager as provided by my OS allows me to get things done extremely quickly.
When I contacted CCP about the use of my setup I was referred to this thread (even though I specifically mentioned I found this thread unclear as it contained conflicting information) so am still unclear as to whether my setup breaches the new interpretation of the EULA.
My solution so far has been to let all but 2 of my subs expire and that is the way things will stay until CCP clarifies their position.

Alavaria - more than just painful on the wrist and forearm, playing Eve became harder work than going to work.

So whilst the changes were ineffective, they were actually hugely effective. No wonder this thread is so long if even the hardcore multiboxers themselves can't decide whether this was effective or not.

While many players will claim innocence regardless of whether or not they are innocent, that doesn't mean everyone is automatically lying. There's a fair percentage of convicted people in prison that will be found to be innocent too.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, Blizzard said ISBoxer was allowed as long as you don't turn it into a bot (where "bot" = "down at the corner store buying a pack of smokes while the program still does stuff"), but they enacted changes to prevent usage of ISBoxer in PVP battlegrounds.

CCP gave us their word that they could detect the difference between IB and RR, and then it turns out they can't. Furthermore, they also have failed to prove how ISBoxer breaks 6A3 while discluding PYFA, Fuzzworks, and that new market program.

Chara you have no idea how funny that is; who would've thought windows would have key maps huh? Lololol

You should just give up, because at this point it's apparent to everyone here that you're grasping for straws.

Do you think anyone believes that lie anymore?

This right here is a problem though. As we found out, they have no client side detection, so there's no way to know if someone is tiling their windows as long as they aren't using them "too efficiently". How is is fair to allow a guy with scouts for example to tile all of his local windows and d-scans into a single screen to protect his ratter, or tile all his ratters information panels into a single place to view them more quickly? Answer is, it's not, but it's impossible to ban.

So what's happening here is the most obvious ISBoxer users and the most efficient manual multiboxers will get banned, while people who are less efficient but still gaining a massive advantage over "normal" players get away without an issue.

1) I dunno what you think multiboxing is, but it's still affected by human error. If I mis-click, half my boxes will target A and half will target B, and that's on a good day! On a bad day, my boxes will be split completely 1 for 1 on each target.

2) We're motivated by actual figures, evidence, and facts, not feelings and beliefs. Show us actual evidence or facts and we can have an actual conversation. Leave the feels to tumblr.

3) Don't knock it until you try it. ISBoxer is not "plug and play" like some cheap two-bit Dell keyboard. Just like racing, it may seem simple and easy from the sidelines or from the couch, but sit behind the wheel and it isn't so easy. Hell, I was on the other side of the fence here! I tried ISBoxing myself, and found out just how difficult it was. I've had about 3/4 of a year of practice, and I like to think I'm semi-decent, but I'm nowhere near as good as others are. But all combined we are nowhere near as good as an alliance like PL or HK in their prime, or as fast as TVP-VG's new Roadrunner fleets. A new ISBoxer is nowhere near as efficient as a good group, even if the ISBoxer has 500m SP toons. Remember: Ebay'd characters being piloted by Joe Schmoe will die to a 5m SP toon piloted by Mr Hyde (sorry for spelling). I can drop as much money as I want into the game and buy purple mods and the only thing that will get me (assuming I bought PLEX) is a one-way ticket to TMC's ALOD column.

4) "... unable to play a game as intended". Uh, wormholes? Incursions? Roaming capital fleets? Double heavy cap boosting Moros? Slippery Petes? C6 Magentar infinite guns? CCP didn't imagine people would min/max this game as strongly as they have. The biggest example are wormholes. CCP didn't expect people to live in them 24/7, but they did. I doubt people expected market PVPers to have such powerful tools available to them to let them and move well over 1 T ISK/month. I also doubt CCP foresaw the growth of the lotto websites as well.

5) Some of us dislike massive groups. I personally tend to get migraines when I'm on a comm channel with 25+ people and some of them talking over each other. There are some among us who are more paranoid than others, and there are some who want to challenge themselves as much as possible when it comes to the game and their multitasking abilities. Watching the video of Pinkskull the Multiboxer from WoW (here) I'm amazed at what a seriously devoted multiboxer can do. I'm nowhere near his level of competency, and thanks to the server's coding as well as fundamental differences in the two games, nobody can do that sort of thing in EVE.

I've lost count of the number of ships I've lost from mis-warping to belts or taking gates early.

I think you are confused. By at the same time, they mean with the same keypress. If you press F1 and it presses F1 in 4 clients, that's at the same time. In a setup where F1 does F1 on C1 and F2 does F1 on C2, etc, this is not the same time. I doubt CCP have a policy against global keybinds which is what you are saying.

Edit: Oh and point of note, you are supposedly not allowed to bind 1 key to multiple keys in 1 client either, so you can;t bind F1 to do F1,F2,F3...F8 all at the same time on one client. You can however hit F1-F8 all with your fingers at the same time though, which while technically allowed will show as a macro to CCP, so your fingers are in fact a bannable offense if you use them too efficiently.

According to randoms flowchart, both VFX and round robin are completely acceptable, and yet CCP have confirmed that's not the case, so I'd take randoms flowchart wit ha pinch of salt.

Amusingly though, it's irrelevant. Even if you click between clients pressing F1 into each window, you can still get banned since they have no way of telling if you are using round robin or switching between clients. What it boils down to is "if you are too efficient at multiboxing, you will be banned". Even better, it may be months down the line that ban occurs, and when it does you lose all of your isk too since they are running this under the bot policy not the cheat policy. Then even better than that, if they falsely ban you and refuse to believe that you weren't in fact using tools, your play data gets added to their detection profiles which makes it more likely that they catch a manual multiboxer next time.

To those crying that CCP changed rules: So what if they did? They CAN if they want to. IRL new laws and rules are created all the time, and existing rules can change. Complain all you want to the police about how stupid the new law is but you'll still have to pay for it. If a speed limit on a road gets lowered and you continue to drive at the old posted speed, you'll still get pulled over and ticketed for speeding, no matter how much crying you do about how the new limit is too low so you want to keep driving the old limit...

baaaaa baaaaaaaa baaaaaa.

Im confused are people just getting mad at the use of 3rd party program, or the use of mulitple accounts

one of my friends, hathorflux for example got banned because he moved to an another place, and changed his creditcard, and the silly ccp ppl just banned him because they tought he sold his char. he logged in once with a new char to tell us abot what happened, and how disapointed he is, then left the game. i like eve, but still... banning somebody for nothing is silly -.- but about this multiboxing thing, im glad because there is no way to be able to compete with an isboxer fleet. am i spelling it correctly? oh well nvm. but ccp, stop banning ppl just because youre silly -.-

Concerning 2)
Just because you found one who was banned by accident there is no reason to turn around. No matter what you do, no matter what is changed, you will always someone who feels he was or is treated in a wrong way. And there is always someone who doesn't like the change and who is using the first guy as example why the whole thing was a bad idea.

Like I said here, if you really can do as you claim, to activate 8-10 modules on different accounts within one second, prove it, post up a video of you doing it with monitor(s), keyboard and mouse visible, because I don't believe you, because it can't be done, even if you're using hover focus. Until you can prove it, I think you're lying, and I stand by the fact that you can only activate modules on 8+ accounts within one second by using third party software, which is one thing that helps CCP find RR users by looking at server-side logs.

I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
10. Posting of private CCP communication is prohibited.

The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, EVE Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including support ticket responses and emails) received from any member of CCP staff.aforementioned parties.

At least that would seem to confirm it's authenticity, and remember, eve-search doesn't forget even when CCP does.

That guy took 5 seconds to activate the gate on all 8 accounts. He doesn't have to worry about anything. People in this thread have been claiming they can do 7-8 clients in 1 second.

Of course they won't tell you. Games companies (especially MMO's) don't divulge their detection methods as it makes it to easy for those players who do want to cheat to avoid detection.

The CSM member that looked at the whole detection and banning process can't tell you about it because of the NDA they signed. Lucas on the other hand seems to think he has been given full disclosure on CCP's detection methods.

There is nothing wrong with CCP using data analysis to flag accounts for a closer look and if you think that video shows someone being to good you definitely don't have to worry. Even I'm quicker than that. Although I also die a lot too.

This is based on what? Your extensive knowledge of CCP's backend systems, our logs and our detection code?

Macro users are included in the statistics for botting by CCP. Source. As per the OP, macroing is commonly referred to as botting.

If it provides no benefit you wouldn't be fighting so hard to retain the right to use macros.

ISBotters in highsec use safety mechanics to dodge wardecs and operate with minimal risk, then claim that they can be killed 'easily'. Everywhere else they are treated exactly like botters, i.e. kill them if you can, but good luck catching one that isn't blue and can be caught.

Stuff

https://element-43.com/market/29668/

Steady as a rock.

But I understand you may have no interest in anything Eve-related, apart from receiving big hourly ticks.



I won't wish for your computer to explode catastrophically, but I do hope that the EULA clauses 6A-2/3 will be enforced in full this coming Summer, as they gain more player buffer from the coming expansions, in order to do that.

Don't be so hard on yourself for not comprehending.

ISBoxer dashboards fall under, 6A-2 "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify [...] how the Game is played."

and

6A-3 "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

Stay sharp, bot boi.

Just to remind people, you don't technically 'own' the account you use, CCP does(as stated in the EULA).


With that being said, it's simple:

Play by the rules, you get to keep playing. Break them and they take the game away from you.

And for the most part I was wrong. CCP banned it, and nearly no impact was seen. Why? Because mass multiboxing is still incredibly viable using legal means.

By your own admission it would let a player run more clients than without it.

More clients while ratting....more isk.

More clients while mining...more resources/isk.

And I could see broadcasting "shoot this rat" as improving the PLAYER'S efficiency. Without ISBoxer one would have to go through each client and assign the drones. Then go back to the main client and shoot the rat they thought they should shoot first. Then all the other drones start shooting. If your trigger client can't shoot (jammed, damped, etc.) then you can lose the benefit of drone assist....now you have to cycle through the clients again setting up. With broadcasting problem solved via 1 click. If a player can make 2-N characters do things with 1 click with ISBoxer vs. 2-N clicks without ISBoxer, that is unequivocally and absolutely and improvement in both acquiring ISK and in game resources. Anyone arguing against this blindingly obvious result has an agenda they are pushing.

So it isn't an improvement in the efficacy of things like an ishtar or warden IIs. It is an improvement in the human player's efficiency.

And for things like ratting, CCP doesn't give a ****ing **** about how much isk/character you are making. They really, really don't. That is a useless and irrelevant metric when it comes to the issue of inflation. At that point all the ****ing matters is the amount of isk entering the economy vs. the amount of goods entering the economy.

But nice try with the word smithing again.

Could you run 12 clients without ISBoxer? If the answer is no, it still results in an improvement in acquiring ISK. In which case I'd say ISBoxer's days are probably limited....

As for using the broadcast/repeater function the length of this thread provides considerable evidence that it was also providing enhanced acquisition of in game assets.

IMO, ISBoxer can be banned under the very same portion of the EULA that covers botters. The language is sufficiently broad. All CCP would need to do is just make an announcement to that effect...like they did with the broadcasting function.

this is eve every aspect of it receives a stream of hate from other aspects of it.

Itd be shocker if it wasnt, you arent using any 3rd party software

You mean like a fleet warp?

so many post and comments to sort through. (sorry for asking) Just a question. (returning eveplayer 8 accounts used to use innerspace)

can we still use inner space to place accounts in a tile. ex: view full game screen on, lets say 6 clients on one screen?


I can click on w/e for each accounts one by one. I dont care about broadcasting i jsut want to tile my accounts,, if not then ill have to manage with window mode.